"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness and into his marvelous light." 1 Peter 2:9-10
Thursday, October 15, 2009
a prayer request....
Please pray for my new friend, Chris, who doesn't understand how much God loves him and how God has such great plans for him. Would you pray that Chris will feel the love that this Christ-follower has for him and THAT would lead him right into the arms of God?????
OK that's nice, but can I ask what you think the purpose of pray is?
Because if God is all knowing it can't be to inform him about something he/she doesn't already know about can it? And if God is all wise it can't be to give him advice. So I have to ask again: what exactly is the point of it?
By the way did you check out the Youtube videos, and if so do you have any answers to the questions posed in the first one, and any comments about the points made in the second video.
Tell me if God loves me, why would he want to send me to Hell simply for not believing in him? But don't waist your time trying to answer that I'll do it for you.
ANSWER: God's a delusion, and the carrot and stick approach to recruiting followers comes from ideas dating back to the ignorant peasants (at least by our standards today they were) who concocted the Bible thousands of years ago.
Anyway thanks again for the nice though, but please shake yourself out of this God Delusion.
Keep well. Chris Hill (Lancaster)
PS. You might find Richard Dawkin's book "The God Delusion" interesting. You check it out from your local lending library.
I don't have a bible as such, I did try to check out some of the stories at my local lending library but they didn't have a copy either. W H Smiths (big UK book store) had Bibles but all (except the good news Bible which I'd never heard of) were covered with plastic. I wanted the King James official version, only the best for me!
Anyway I have access to a number of different versions online, so could check out any story within minutes. Which should I start with? Stories of stonings (for the crime of collecting firewood on a Sunday), mass murders (Joshua and the walls of Jericho), incest (Lot and his daughters) etc. By the way did you know that the phrase "let him without sin cast the first stone" was only added to the Bible in the 1100's.
As for the God Delusion it's now on Youtube as an audio book read by Dawkins and his wife Lara ward (the Dr who actress). It's in 10 min sections so makes great in car listening.
The video below is an American TV news-clip showing how the cult of Islam (for a cult is what Islam is) is spread by threats and intimidation. ”Islamic threat”
All religions are delusional in nature, but Christianity is in general fairly benign (the likes of the Westborough Baptist Church excepted of course), while the cult of Islam is a menace to the whole world. But be in no doubt a delusional belief in a God (or Gods) is at the heart of the problem.
[reposting my answer to your question regarding the purpose of prayer - i do apologize for posting on your family blog]
Are you married? Have a significant other, a best friend, anybody meaningful in your life? If so, imagine knowing that person, living with them, doing life with them - and yet never speaking to them. Never sitting down and having a long cozy conversation. Never asking their advice or opinion on something. Never wanting to tell them about your day or about the wonderful thing that happened to you. Hard to imagine, isn't it? How do you maintain a relationship with someone and never communicate with them?
When the Creator of the universe made us, He designed us to live in relationship with Him. He loves us, therefore it follows that He desires to spend time with us. And because He first loved us, we reciprocate that love, so we desire to spend time with Him.
Prayer is a conversation with our Father in heaven. Now, can we ever tell Him something He does not already know? Obviously not. However, if you've ever had a child, you know that many, many times throughout their childhood, we patiently listen to our children as they relate the same stories over and over, or eagerly tell us something we already know, just for the pleasure of listening to them, interacting with them, building a relationship with them.
God desires conversation with us. We are His precious children and He loves talking to us and listening to us. Hebrews 11:6 says God rewards those who earnestly seek Him. Jeremiah 29:13 says we will find Him when we seek Him with all our heart. God meets us where we are. He is never too busy for us.
I, too, am praying for the Holy Spirit to meet you where you are and open your heart and mind to the truth of Who He is.
That's no problem the only reason I asked you to post on my other blog is that it gets a far greater number of visitors than the family blog.
As I said, I'm not married nor have I ever been married (no I'm not homosexual).
As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid it simply shows you have the God delusion very badly, but don't worry there is a cure: logic and reason.
Think about the whole idea of Christianity (similar reasoning can be applied to any religion of course), think about the very tenets of Christianity:
Salvation through Jesus Christ: God sends his son (who is also himself remember) down to earth to suffer for sins he didn't commit. This offers me salvation for sins that I didn't commit, and that are only sins in Gods eyes anyway. If I want to collect firewood on a Sunday what's it got to do with God.
This is just too silly for words, God (Jesus who is his own son) dies for my sins (sins he defined), and which I was guilty of thousands of years before I was born.
Religion is total nonsense. Please brake out of you bubble of delusion.
here's the deal, chris. entering into an intellectual discussion with you would serve no purpose other than to keep you happily occupied thinking of new things to throw at me and any other Christian who seeks to engage you in honest debate. case in point: rather than engage in any sort of discussion of the points made in my post on the purpose of prayer, you simply reverted back to your tagline, "religion is total nonsense." basically, you are pot-stirring. You are not a genuine seeker of truth.
God is a mystery. His ways are infinitely higher than our ways. and i'm really glad about that, because a god whom i could understand and define would be a pretty small god, wouldn't he? i'm very comfortable knowing that my God holds all the answers and that someday very soon, they will be revealed - in HIS time and in HIS way. for now, He doesn't answer to me. He has revealed Himself to mankind in a variety of ways. His Word contains all that i need to know for now. when studied with a sincere, seeking heart, His Word is full of treasures that anyone can mine. Romans 1:20 says this: “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” did you catch that? men are WITHOUT EXCUSE. to those who are truly seeking Him, He makes Himself known. Jeremiah 29:13 says “you will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.” Hebrews 11:6 “God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.” bottom line, Chris - IF you were earnestly seeking Him, you would find Him. but your goal for now, rather than desiring to know God, is simply to see how many people you can take down into your pit of despair with you. if you choose to live out your life without God by your side, then i am genuinely sorry for you. personally, i love living every day of my life knowing that the Creator of everything loves me and wants to live in relationship with me. i especially love knowing that i can not only live in relationship with Him here, but that i have all of eternity to look forward to as well. may i suggest, when the day comes that you have a genuine desire to have your [very legitimate, BTW] questions answered, that you begin by studying the Bible, as Josh McDowell did? JM was an avowed atheist who set out to scientifically disprove the Bible in every way possible. he found that it couldn’t be done. as he continued his quest, he came to know the One Whose claims he could not ultimately refute. if you think you can do better, i encourage you to try. it might be a much better use of your time than searching the internet for Christians you can jerk around. you can read about his journey in his book “Evidence That Demands a Verdict.” if truth is what you seek, i encourage you to read it.
no man can change another man’s heart, Chris. my supplying answers to your endless questions serves no purpose, other than to feed your attention-seeking ego. but the Holy Spirit CAN change a man’s heart – even yours. and this is exactly what i, and i’m certain many other Christians will be praying for in the coming weeks. but watch out! as in the case of Paul, another avowed atheist and hater of Christ to whom God revealed Himself in a powerful and dramatic way, you might find yourself “blinded by the light!” i pray that you will hold your heart and mind open to Him and allow Him to bring you into the truth.
You said: "……..you simply reverted back to your tagline, "religion is total nonsense."
I say: But that's just it, there is no other response because you base your beliefs entirely on faith, without one scrap of evidence to back any of it up (the Bible isn't evidence and I'll cover that next). What other point is there with which to demonstrate the absurdity of your claims?
You said: " He has revealed Himself to mankind in a variety of ways. His Word contains all that i need to know for now. when studied with a sincere, seeking heart, His Word is full of treasures that anyone can mine."
I say: No he/she hasn't revealed him/herself at all. The Bible is a concocted digest of Middle Eastern fairy tales, written over a period of over many hundreds of years, by scientifically ignorant peasants. It contains many many contradictions and explanations of the world that are complete nonsense. It's certainly not the work of an all-knowing deity.
Think about it, you would agree I think that a belief in other Gods is delusional, ie the Hindu Gods or Buddha. You would also, I hope, reject the Koran as being the word of God (although of course many muslims are just as convinced that it is, as you are that the Bible is the word of God). There are (or have been in the past) an estimated 7000 different Gods, we both agree that 6999 are delusional; I simply take that final step into the light of reason by rejecting that last remaining delusion.
Try this just for one day, look at the world and try to explain it not through the delusion of it being Gods handiwork, but using logic and common sense. Believe me you'll find it a much more wonderful place when you do.
Thanks for your good wishes, but rather than wasting your time praying for me, why not put the time to good use and shake off the God delusion.
[Lori, i apologize for having used your blog to perpetuate this discussion for so long, and i promise this will be the last time.]
Chris,
Ha! I'm sorry, but I'm still sort of laughing at one of your last comments - "Believe me you'll find it a much more wonderful place when you [let go of my "God-delusion"].
Really, your arrogance and pomposity would be almost laughable if they weren't so sad. Your definition of "wonderful" and mine must be very different things. That's almost like saying, "if you give up that silly notion of fresh air and sunlight and come on down into the pit of pig manure with me, I assure you you'll find it a wonderful place!" No, thank you!
I would not trade a single moment of living in relationship with my heavenly Father for anything outside of it. Believe me, I've experienced life without Him, and I would not go back.
But I will sincerely pray for you, Chris, and ask God to do a supernatural work in your life, to reveal Himself to you in a powerful way. Then, at least if you still decide to turn from Him and go your own way, it won't be for a lack of knowledge and understanding. Know this: God never "sends" anybody to hell. Man chooses of his own volition to reject God, both now and for eternity. This is not God's will for anybody. He made every one of us, and He loves us all. His will is for us to know and be in relationship with Him. And yes - He has revealed Himself to mankind. Look around you. If you seek Him, you WILL find Him. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you and see what happens. I dare ya.
Chris, God created you and He loves you beyond anything we could ever fathom. He doesn't want you to live separate from Him, but He won't make the choice for you. We are not robots. Mankind is given free will to either choose faith in God or to choose to live independently of Him. I pray that His love will reach out to you, heal you, and open your heart and mind to the truth of Who He is.
Now, we have held this nice lady's blog hostage long enough. You'll be in my prayers. God bless you.
OK Give me one scrap of evidence for any of your beliefs (and no you can't use the Bible to prove the Bible). You say that your God loves me, but tell me why is it so important to him/her that I should return that love? I didn't ask him/her to love me, nor do I expect him/her to love me, so why does he/she care. And what right does he/she have to condemn me to hell for not doing so. Now I know the answer: it’s a delusion, there is no all powerful deity, nor is there a hell.
Now in general Christianity is fairly benign (there are of course exceptions), but that's not always true of other manifestations of the delusion, which can be very harmful indeed. Please watch the Youtube link below. ”Persecution of Christians in the UK”
Now this particular instance is Muslim intimidation of well meaning (but equally deluded) Christians. But the point isn't which religion is attacking which other religion, it's about one religion, Islam, that is trying to dominate the world.
You may well argue that your belief hurts no one (except yourself of course) but that certainly isn't true for many instances of the God delusion. Quite simply: all religion hurts us all.
13 comments:
Hi Lori,
OK that's nice, but can I ask what you think the purpose of pray is?
Because if God is all knowing it can't be to inform him about something he/she doesn't already know about can it? And if God is all wise it can't be to give him advice. So I have to ask again: what exactly is the point of it?
By the way did you check out the Youtube videos, and if so do you have any answers to the questions posed in the first one, and any comments about the points made in the second video.
Tell me if God loves me, why would he want to send me to Hell
simply for not believing in him? But don't waist your time trying to answer that I'll do it for you.
ANSWER:
God's a delusion, and the carrot and stick approach to recruiting followers comes from ideas dating back to the ignorant peasants (at least by our standards today they were) who concocted the Bible thousands of years ago.
Anyway thanks again for the nice though, but please shake yourself out of this God Delusion.
Keep well.
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
PS.
You might find Richard Dawkin's book "The God Delusion" interesting. You check it out from your local lending library.
In my last posting "Though" should of course have been "Thought"
You know what they say, post in haste, regret at leisure.
Hi Lori,
I don't have a bible as such, I did try to check out some of the stories at my local lending library but they didn't have a copy either. W H Smiths (big UK book store) had Bibles but all (except the good news Bible which I'd never heard of) were covered with plastic. I wanted the King James official version, only the best for me!
Anyway I have access to a number of different versions online, so could check out any story within minutes. Which should I start with? Stories of stonings (for the crime of collecting firewood on a Sunday), mass murders (Joshua and the walls of Jericho), incest (Lot and his daughters) etc. By the way did you know that the phrase "let him without sin cast the first stone" was only added to the Bible in the 1100's.
As for the God Delusion it's now on Youtube as an audio book read by Dawkins and his wife Lara ward (the Dr who actress). It's in 10 min sections so makes great in car listening.
Part 1.
”The God Delusion”
Keep well
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
PS
Just in cast the link doesn't work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k47Dc1DRhnY
Hi again Lori,
The video below is an American TV news-clip showing how the cult of Islam (for a cult is what Islam is) is spread by threats and intimidation.
”Islamic threat”
All religions are delusional in nature, but Christianity is in general fairly benign (the likes of the Westborough Baptist Church excepted of course), while the cult of Islam is a menace to the whole world. But be in no doubt a delusional belief in a God (or Gods) is at the heart of the problem.
Keep well
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
[reposting my answer to your question regarding the purpose of prayer - i do apologize for posting on your family blog]
Are you married? Have a significant other, a best friend, anybody meaningful in your life? If so, imagine knowing that person, living with them, doing life with them - and yet never speaking to them. Never sitting down and having a long cozy conversation. Never asking their advice or opinion on something. Never wanting to tell them about your day or about the wonderful thing that happened to you. Hard to imagine, isn't it? How do you maintain a relationship with someone and never communicate with them?
When the Creator of the universe made us, He designed us to live in relationship with Him. He loves us, therefore it follows that He desires to spend time with us. And because He first loved us, we reciprocate that love, so we desire to spend time with Him.
Prayer is a conversation with our Father in heaven. Now, can we ever tell Him something He does not already know? Obviously not. However, if you've ever had a child, you know that many, many times throughout their childhood, we patiently listen to our children as they relate the same stories over and over, or eagerly tell us something we already know, just for the pleasure of listening to them, interacting with them, building a relationship with them.
God desires conversation with us. We are His precious children and He loves talking to us and listening to us. Hebrews 11:6 says God rewards those who earnestly seek Him. Jeremiah 29:13 says we will find Him when we seek Him with all our heart. God meets us where we are. He is never too busy for us.
I, too, am praying for the Holy Spirit to meet you where you are and open your heart and mind to the truth of Who He is.
Dear Anonymous (4:55 pm),
That's no problem the only reason I asked you to post on my other blog is that it gets a far greater number of visitors than the family blog.
As I said, I'm not married nor have I ever been married (no I'm not homosexual).
As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid it simply shows you have the God delusion very badly, but don't worry there is a cure: logic and reason.
Think about the whole idea of Christianity (similar reasoning can be applied to any religion of course), think about the very tenets of Christianity:
Salvation through Jesus Christ:
God sends his son (who is also himself remember) down to earth to suffer for sins he didn't commit. This offers me salvation for sins that I didn't commit, and that are only sins in Gods eyes anyway. If I want to collect firewood on a Sunday what's it got to do with God.
This is just too silly for words, God (Jesus who is his own son) dies for my sins (sins he defined), and which I was guilty of thousands of years before I was born.
Religion is total nonsense. Please brake out of you bubble of delusion.
Keep well
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
Dear again Anonymous (4:55 pm),
Can I ask you to view this video and see what you think about the questions it poses.
”God in my life”
I think it makes a lot of good common sense don't you?
From
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
good common sense? Are you serious?
here's the deal, chris. entering into an intellectual discussion with you would serve no purpose other than to keep you happily occupied thinking of new things to throw at me and any other Christian who seeks to engage you in honest debate. case in point: rather than engage in any sort of discussion of the points made in my post on the purpose of prayer, you simply reverted back to your tagline, "religion is total nonsense." basically, you are pot-stirring. You are not a genuine seeker of truth.
God is a mystery. His ways are infinitely higher than our ways. and i'm really glad about that, because a god whom i could understand and define would be a pretty small god, wouldn't he? i'm very comfortable knowing that my God holds all the answers and that someday very soon, they will be revealed - in HIS time and in HIS way. for now, He doesn't answer to me. He has revealed Himself to mankind in a variety of ways. His Word contains all that i need to know for now. when studied with a sincere, seeking heart, His Word is full of treasures that anyone can mine. Romans 1:20 says this: “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” did you catch that? men are WITHOUT EXCUSE. to those who are truly seeking Him, He makes Himself known. Jeremiah 29:13 says “you will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.” Hebrews 11:6 “God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.” bottom line, Chris - IF you were earnestly seeking Him, you would find Him. but your goal for now, rather than desiring to know God, is simply to see how many people you can take down into your pit of despair with you. if you choose to live out your life without God by your side, then i am genuinely sorry for you. personally, i love living every day of my life knowing that the Creator of everything loves me and wants to live in relationship with me. i especially love knowing that i can not only live in relationship with Him here, but that i have all of eternity to look forward to as well. may i suggest, when the day comes that you have a genuine desire to have your [very legitimate, BTW] questions answered, that you begin by studying the Bible, as Josh McDowell did? JM was an avowed atheist who set out to scientifically disprove the Bible in every way possible. he found that it couldn’t be done. as he continued his quest, he came to know the One Whose claims he could not ultimately refute. if you think you can do better, i encourage you to try. it might be a much better use of your time than searching the internet for Christians you can jerk around. you can read about his journey in his book “Evidence That Demands a Verdict.” if truth is what you seek, i encourage you to read it.
no man can change another man’s heart, Chris. my supplying answers to your endless questions serves no purpose, other than to feed your attention-seeking ego. but the Holy Spirit CAN change a man’s heart – even yours. and this is exactly what i, and i’m certain many other Christians will be praying for in the coming weeks. but watch out! as in the case of Paul, another avowed atheist and hater of Christ to whom God revealed Himself in a powerful and dramatic way, you might find yourself “blinded by the light!” i pray that you will hold your heart and mind open to Him and allow Him to bring you into the truth.
may God truly bless you, my friend.
Lori, i just love your blog! thank you for sharing your heart of faith with us!
Dear Anonymous (8:14 pm),
You said:
"……..you simply reverted back to your tagline, "religion is total nonsense."
I say:
But that's just it, there is no other response because you base your beliefs entirely on faith, without one scrap of evidence to back any of it up (the Bible isn't evidence and I'll cover that next). What other point is there with which to demonstrate the absurdity of your claims?
You said:
" He has revealed Himself to mankind in a variety of ways. His Word contains all that i need to know for now. when studied with a sincere, seeking heart, His Word is full of treasures that anyone can mine."
I say:
No he/she hasn't revealed him/herself at all. The Bible is a concocted digest of Middle Eastern fairy tales, written over a period of over many hundreds of years, by scientifically ignorant peasants. It contains many many contradictions and explanations of the world that are complete nonsense. It's certainly not the work of an all-knowing deity.
Think about it, you would agree I think that a belief in other Gods is delusional, ie the Hindu Gods or Buddha. You would also, I hope, reject the Koran as being the word of God (although of course many muslims are just as convinced that it is, as you are that the Bible is the word of God). There are (or have been in the past) an estimated 7000 different Gods, we both agree that 6999 are delusional; I simply take that final step into the light of reason by rejecting that last remaining delusion.
Try this just for one day, look at the world and try to explain it not through the delusion of it being Gods handiwork, but using logic and common sense. Believe me you'll find it a much more wonderful place when you do.
Thanks for your good wishes, but rather than wasting your time praying for me, why not put the time to good use and shake off the God delusion.
Your friend
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
PS.
Have you seen this American TV news-clip on Youtube?
'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E5krZmdjL8&feature=player_embedded'>”Persecution of Christians in the UK”
Whoops what happened there? I think I've got the link right now.
”Persecution of Christians in the UK”
[Lori, i apologize for having used your blog to perpetuate this discussion for so long, and i promise this will be the last time.]
Chris,
Ha! I'm sorry, but I'm still sort of laughing at one of your last comments - "Believe me you'll find it a much more wonderful place when you [let go of my "God-delusion"].
Really, your arrogance and pomposity would be almost laughable if they weren't so sad. Your definition of "wonderful" and mine must be very different things. That's almost like saying, "if you give up that silly notion of fresh air and sunlight and come on down into the pit of pig manure with me, I assure you you'll find it a wonderful place!" No, thank you!
I would not trade a single moment of living in relationship with my heavenly Father for anything outside of it. Believe me, I've experienced life without Him, and I would not go back.
But I will sincerely pray for you, Chris, and ask God to do a supernatural work in your life, to reveal Himself to you in a powerful way. Then, at least if you still decide to turn from Him and go your own way, it won't be for a lack of knowledge and understanding. Know this: God never "sends" anybody to hell. Man chooses of his own volition to reject God, both now and for eternity. This is not God's will for anybody. He made every one of us, and He loves us all. His will is for us to know and be in relationship with Him. And yes - He has revealed Himself to mankind. Look around you. If you seek Him, you WILL find Him. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you and see what happens. I dare ya.
Chris, God created you and He loves you beyond anything we could ever fathom. He doesn't want you to live separate from Him, but He won't make the choice for you. We are not robots. Mankind is given free will to either choose faith in God or to choose to live independently of Him. I pray that His love will reach out to you, heal you, and open your heart and mind to the truth of Who He is.
Now, we have held this nice lady's blog hostage long enough. You'll be in my prayers. God bless you.
Dear anonymous (12:44 pm)
OK Give me one scrap of evidence for any of your beliefs (and no you can't use the Bible to prove the Bible). You say that your God loves me, but tell me why is it so important to him/her that I should return that love? I didn't ask him/her to love me, nor do I expect him/her to love me, so why does he/she care. And what right does he/she have to condemn me to hell for not doing so. Now I know the answer: it’s a delusion, there is no all powerful deity, nor is there a hell.
Now in general Christianity is fairly benign (there are of course exceptions), but that's not always true of other manifestations of the delusion, which can be very harmful indeed. Please watch the Youtube link below.
”Persecution of Christians in the UK”
Now this particular instance is Muslim intimidation of well meaning (but equally deluded) Christians. But the point isn't which religion is attacking which other religion, it's about one religion, Islam, that is trying to dominate the world.
You may well argue that your belief hurts no one (except yourself of course) but that certainly isn't true for many instances of the God delusion. Quite simply: all religion hurts us all.
Keep well
Chris Hill
(Lancaster)
Post a Comment